Hardcore and max bases

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Timber
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Re: Hardcore and max bases

Post by Timber » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:21 am

I dont see why death has be punishing at all. It could be a teleport to bluesquare and still be okay.

Bloodknight
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Re: Hardcore and max bases

Post by Bloodknight » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:15 pm

Fred wrote:
Tyce wrote:Uh not a permanent loss you just gotta go get your body
I don't see why we should lose any piece? The fact that we died means that we couldn't handle a certain situation and now you want us to Corpse Run with LESS gear/stats to the same place we couldn't handle WITH our full set?

Just out of randomness, the 2 pieces you lost could be your 2 +20Imm/Tactic/Str items, now all of a sudden, you're no longer immune to their spells, goodluck getting your gear back on your own now...

I've already said this: Just because we lose gear we don't bother with questing at our level, we do quests when they're so easy to do, you can go afk & not die, this is not challenging content and it can never be challenge content just because of the risk of losing gear

Also, what with people that picked HC at the start because it's better? After several months you suddenly say "oh too bad guys, we're taking your good things away"
I'dd play SC too if it wasn't for the +7bases, so are us Hardcore characters getting the 1time option to go SC after lvl 1?

Ishtar saw this problem in OW & had to make NW to fix it, If you want to remove it, it's too late now, not without resetting the game so people can choose what they want
And when you quit at level 80** because there's nothing left to do and nobody left to fight, i'll point everyone to this post and say this is why theres no new content and this is why its the same old broken game that died before, because entitled players tossed their rattle out of the pram.

What i'm hoping in reality is that this time round the management dont pander to entitled players who thing the game owes them stuff they didnt actually earn, i'm not sure i care either way, if this server doesnt step up another will, eventually somebody will make a new astonia instead of an old astonia, or maybe they wont and all servers will die the same horrid stagnant death as the original.

** i say 80, probably closer to 100 since in reality HC players are pussies, they dont take risks they play it safe 100% of the time they get half of their total experience from LQs, or they hang around at the back of RD groups and let the SC lead, they arent hardcore they just get bonuses for being cowards, and that is why they really get the exp bonus because they are too afraid to earn real experience like real players, they just want the bonuses, so really you are mainly a bunch of cowardly fakers, pretty pathetic really when you look at it.

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Re: Hardcore and max bases

Post by Bloodknight » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:16 pm

Timber wrote:I dont see why death has be punishing at all. It could be a teleport to bluesquare and still be okay.
confirmation of above comments!

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Re: Hardcore and max bases

Post by Emmy » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:54 pm

Sure..why not a one time shrine in Aston that will allow any HC the chance to got SC with the removal of extra bases and exp increase. I am sure it could be done. Heck you could get a total dang reset of ALL your exp, such things are indeed in the realm of possible.
And Fred, making the change NOW, means you haven't lost any goodies, because you haven't earned them as of yet. You are literally complaining about something that will flat out stop the development of high level content in 6 months....

While I get the losing gear thing, I actually side with everyone that no gear should be lost and the negs are punitive enough, BUT, Eddow did offer a HUGE break by saying it could be 2 random pieces.
So we went from Negs and all EG lost to Negs and only 2 pieces of eq that you have to try and recover.
Now we are moving from okay I got THIS much ...now I want to have NO NEGS, NO Gear loss and end up on a Blue Square all fine and dandy...
Let's try being rational when asking for a change. You need to be clear in WHY something is bad or good.
The "NO THESE ARE MY COOKIES AND YOU CANT HAVE THEM" approach does not work.
When you argue for keeping or getting rid of something.... WHY is it good or bad for the game? Why is it good or bad from a player standpoint? Why is it good or bad from a business standpoint? Will it allow the game to progress? Will it destroy play at higher levels? Will it make it impossible to expand down the road?
There are MANY variables that the owners of a game must take into consideration and for Ugaris, the time to take some things into consideration is NOW...NOT after you get to level 100.

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Re: Hardcore and max bases

Post by Timber » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:50 pm

Ever done sunken temple and walked on the wrong square in the last level? That's one hour of playtime wasted. That's pretty damn annoying. What about last part of Caligar Palace, and then died? Sure as hell people have done that, and been so frustrated by it.

Now imagine if you're HC, or if you got no saves. You just lost all your gear, and there's more or less no way of getting it back before it rots. You can even die in pents, and have your body there, but not have the time to go get it. People have work, kids, school etc.

Saying that I shouldnt do risky things because I have no saves is a ridiculous statement. I dont even have to do anything risky. I can pent below my level, manage to misclick my weapon off by mistake, because my cat jumped on me, because a fire broke out. Any stupid reason could happen so I die. If I'm a high level, there's a fair change there are no one online who can help me, or maybe I just dont have time to go spend 15 minutes getting my body. If I get 40 negs on my level 90 who has my +20 set which I spent the last 3 years working on, I can pretty much guarantee you I will quit. I'm sure things like this could happen to people with less gear, or in other scenarios that would also make other people quit.

Even if you pent, and you die, its annoying as you lose time. You also lose the solve, if its at low levels. It doesn't make death extremely punishing, but it makes it annoying enough that you don't want it. We could add other things here that are annoying, and makes you not want to die, other than possibly ruining the game for you. A solution like this, also allows people to attempt challenging quests and tasks without being scared of dying. That part at the end of Zombie 2 with 4 zombies in it is still scary, you don't wanna die, but it won't mean I have to hope someone has time for BR and I won't have to find a way to clear the 40 negs because I dont have the equipment or havent raised my character right so I can't pent.


NW made a huge step in the right direction by removing equipment loss on death. Losing your main set, even if its at level 20, can easily make you quit the game. RPGs are based on progress, and noticing that progress. Its like playing Skyrim or Fallout for 10 hours, hitting level 20, and then have your game crash when you forgot to save. All that progress is gone, and you sure as hell don't want to start all over. If there's an autosave from 30 minutes back, it sucks, but at least you didn't lose everything. Increase the playtime from 20 hours to 100 hours as a level 50-60 would have, and you suddenly understand why I think equipmentloss is such a huge thing. Negs are somewhat in the same direction, as for the duration of your negs, you don't feel that level of progress as you do when you dont have negs. You see your experience go up, and you can raise stats. With negs, this doens't exit. It's basically a countdown to when you can progress again.


This ended up being a wall of text, but death and HC has been one of the main factors I always considered Astonia to be a decent game compared to an absolutely amazing one.

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Re: Hardcore and max bases

Post by platinum » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:05 pm

i agree with timber.
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Re: Hardcore and max bases

Post by Emmy » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:30 pm

Ahh, but Timber, now you have given valid reasons to consider no EQ loss...Not just, "We shouldn't lose any gear and end up on the blue square and okay."
See the difference?
Your reasoning for not losing gear is a valid one...and again, I agree, that gear loss is just plain ... for lack of a better word, mean. You already get nasty negs and that should suffice for both HC and SC deaths.
We just have to give compelling reasons. BUT, if Admin does not want to budge...I will take the loss of 2 items over the loss of ALL items.
Some will say..you could /allow someone to your body...However, do you really want to trust someone to all your stuff?

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Re: Hardcore and max bases

Post by Timber » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:34 pm

Emmy wrote:Ahh, but Timber, now you have given valid reasons to consider no EQ loss...Not just, "We shouldn't lose any gear and end up on the blue square and okay."
See the difference?
Your reasoning for not losing gear is a valid one...and again, I agree, that gear loss is just plain ... for lack of a better word, mean. You already get nasty negs and that should suffice for both HC and SC deaths.
We just have to give compelling reasons. BUT, if Admin does not want to budge...I will take the loss of 2 items over the loss of ALL items.
Some will say..you could /allow someone to your body...However, do you really want to trust someone to all your stuff?
Yeah, your post about posting reasons made me realise that :p

Settling for only losing 2 items, sounds to me like "Well, we can't fix all the issues on your car, you'll still be driving, but one of your wheels will be missing."

I prefer that to not having any wheels, but it's still pretty damn retarded.

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Re: Hardcore and max bases

Post by Fred » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:48 pm

Emmy wrote:Sure..why not a one time shrine in Aston that will allow any HC the chance to got SC with the removal of extra bases and exp increase. I am sure it could be done. Heck you could get a total dang reset of ALL your exp, such things are indeed in the realm of possible.
And Fred, making the change NOW, means you haven't lost any goodies, because you haven't earned them as of yet. You are literally complaining about something that will flat out stop the development of high level content in 6 months....

While I get the losing gear thing, I actually side with everyone that no gear should be lost and the negs are punitive enough, BUT, Eddow did offer a HUGE break by saying it could be 2 random pieces.
So we went from Negs and all EG lost to Negs and only 2 pieces of eq that you have to try and recover.
Now we are moving from okay I got THIS much ...now I want to have NO NEGS, NO Gear loss and end up on a Blue Square all fine and dandy...
Let's try being rational when asking for a change. You need to be clear in WHY something is bad or good.
The "NO THESE ARE MY COOKIES AND YOU CANT HAVE THEM" approach does not work.
When you argue for keeping or getting rid of something.... WHY is it good or bad for the game? Why is it good or bad from a player standpoint? Why is it good or bad from a business standpoint? Will it allow the game to progress? Will it destroy play at higher levels? Will it make it impossible to expand down the road?
There are MANY variables that the owners of a game must take into consideration and for Ugaris, the time to take some things into consideration is NOW...NOT after you get to level 100.
Yes but I didn't go Hardcore because it's better now, I took it because it's better later, I have died several times and "wasted" time removing negs & even replacing some gear cause I couldn't BR - all this will be for nothing if you suddenly remove it.

This discussion has been held for so long, you should have disabled Hardcore from the beginning if you wanted the endgame to be fair, you can not allow it & then suddenly when people are nearing the point where it actually becomes better say "oh sorry we're gonna remove it now" since I might be "far" off now, but by the time you would implement this, I won't be...

I do however agree that to make endgame for this game something needs to be done but I'm not giving up Hardcore for some stupid consolation prize.
I've already said what you should do: Offer Hardcore a 1time change to Softcore, anything less would be spitting in hardcore players face after they put in alot of effort to get far while being hardcore

As for the items loss on death, losing 2 items is still too big, I've already mentioned that if you lose items with your immunity stats on them, you could die even faster if you died from Mages
Bloodknight wrote:What i'm hoping in reality is that this time round the management dont pander to entitled players who thing the game owes them stuff they didnt actually earn, i'm not sure i care either way, if this server doesnt step up another will, eventually somebody will make a new astonia instead of an old astonia, or maybe they wont and all servers will die the same horrid stagnant death as the original.

** i say 80, probably closer to 100 since in reality HC players are pussies, they dont take risks they play it safe 100% of the time they get half of their total experience from LQs, or they hang around at the back of RD groups and let the SC lead, they arent hardcore they just get bonuses for being cowards, and that is why they really get the exp bonus because they are too afraid to earn real experience like real players, they just want the bonuses, so really you are mainly a bunch of cowardly fakers, pretty pathetic really when you look at it.
I'm sorry but I'm not a pussy, I lead in my RD groups, I lead pretty much everywhere, I've died several times because of it and I had to pay the Neg Price for it, but I do want my bonus for all my efforts! If other servers will implement a NW type of game where there's no HC / SC difference, you can damn well accept the fact you'll be starting for lvl 1 and not in my current case from a lvl 50+ seyan
There is no fair trade where SC & HC become equal when people have leveled up already! And in my eyes, it seems like the Pussies are the Softcore players who don't dare to level a Hardcore but want to be equal as hardcore in strenght...

Conclusion: Either keep it as it is, if you don't than give Hardcore a chance to go Softcore or do a full reset and implement only one playstyle: Softcore

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Re: Hardcore and max bases

Post by Mastertrader » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:01 pm

If its gonna be changed i wanna know it now, couse than i lvl my softcore not my hc :-)

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